mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/41
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Shaun Moss
Male/41
Brisbane, QLD, AU
mossy2100 in this channel
Hi everyone
This is a somewhat difficult news item to post so I will take my time and endeavour to be as clear as possible.
For perhaps a month now I have been having doubts about how to best tackle continued development on moonmars.com. Despite having worked very hard on it for about 7 months, including travelling to the US and Australia and promoting it at 5 space conferences, it has failed (so far) to generate a significant level of activity, or to attract business partners or funding of any kind. Everyone says it's a great idea and is very positive and enthusiastic about it, but the results tell the story. The site is simply not being used very much.
This is easily attributable to the fact that it is still very much in beta, and some of the core features have not been developed. Others need to be completely redesigned and rebuilt, plus we had a number of bugs there for a while that I could not spare time to fix, and which I suspect turned a few people off. It's quite understandable that a new and unique site would have these kind of problems - 7 months is not all that much time, after all - and the answer, of course, is simply to be persistent and get those features redesigned and built as required, until the site is fully functional as envisaged. Then I could expect people to start using it in earnest.
Unfortunately, I have persisted with this project as long as I reasonably can in light of other pressures in my life. The main problem, as with all startups, is capital. I have been funding this project from my own pocket since its inception, plus contributing a significant amount of time to it. This has seriously impacted not only my finances, but also my business. I have another Drupal 7 project that I'm developing for the Australian government, which is a very good project, probably the best I've ever had, and it's paying the bills. I can't afford to lose it. However, due to time invested in moonmars.com, I am now about 1-2 months behind on that project. I've made my excuses, but now am in the situation where I absolutely must deliver a site for them by February, and I can't risk anything impeding that goal. Unfortunately that includes moonmars.com.
Aside from this, my life this year has become almost completely overtaken by Drupal, which is simply not what I want my life to be about. Part of the reason I started building moonmars.com so I could write about space settlement. But I haven't had a lot of time for writing, or for many other things. My feeling now is that writing is much more likely to be my purpose than business, although perhaps there is room for both. But I need to make room for both.
Yet another consideration is the reality that social networks are simply not attracting the levels of enthusiastic investment they once did. Despite its incredible market valuation, Facebook is not an especially profitable website, and since going public they've been under pressure to introduce all kinds of new revenue streams, many of which are unloved. YouTube is another example of a highly-valued and trafficked site that ran at a loss for a long time, and only recently have Google figured out some innovative ways to monetise it with ads.
All of these sites must run ads in order to make money, and I, too, had assumed the first and most obvious way to generate revenue from moonmars.com would be through advertising, which is why the right-hand sidebar has remained empty. However, the increasing prevalence of online ads has tended to dilute their effectiveness and profitability, and ads are no longer the golden river that made Google so wealthy. Recognising this, I realised that the most important revenue stream for moonmars.com would most likely be by charging fees for usage of the virtual environment, which was, after all, the original purpose of the project. This could prove to be very profitable, but a tremendous amount of work would be required to get to that point. I decided to build a social network before the virtual environment because it would be easier, but to do even this by myself has proved impractical.
Do we even need another social network? Most of the conversation about space is now taking place on Facebook. Trying to migrate the conversation here would only serve to divide rather than consolidate it, which was my original goal. Even though I do still truly believe we can build something better than Facebook that is totally dedicated to space - a collaboration framework rather than a social network - and I would still like to see that goal realised, there is probably very little real need for an alternative social network at this time. Facebook is a free tool that we can and should use, along with Twitter and LinkedIn. If moonmars.com gets funded then I would continue to build the social networking features, since I believe we can introduce innovations that will produce a superior result that the mainstream alternatives. But for now, these tools are adequate, and I can't justify building something that isn't genuinely needed and may not even generate enough revenue to support its own development.
I am not closing the site down, as I think that would be too drastic and unnecessary an action to take at this time. However, unless the investor gods suddenly point their magical golden fingers at me, in order to secure the success of my other project, which is quite essential, we will not be able to do any work on moonmars.com until I've achieved certain milestones with my other website, which will be February - April 2013. If we do decide at that time to continue this project, we will evaluate what needs to be kept, what needs to be rebuilt, and whether we need to change focus and build something else instead - such as the virtual environment. (This change of direction is called "pivoting" in startup parlance.)
Building this site - what there is of it - has been educational and brought me some awesome new friends. I'm very grateful for the support I've received from all of you. I'm sorry that I couldn't deliver on all my promises, but that's life, and fortunately no kittens were harmed in the process
Mossy
This is a somewhat difficult news item to post so I will take my time and endeavour to be as clear as possible.
For perhaps a month now I have been having doubts about how to best tackle continued development on moonmars.com. Despite having worked very hard on it for about 7 months, including travelling to the US and Australia and promoting it at 5 space conferences, it has failed (so far) to generate a significant level of activity, or to attract business partners or funding of any kind. Everyone says it's a great idea and is very positive and enthusiastic about it, but the results tell the story. The site is simply not being used very much.
This is easily attributable to the fact that it is still very much in beta, and some of the core features have not been developed. Others need to be completely redesigned and rebuilt, plus we had a number of bugs there for a while that I could not spare time to fix, and which I suspect turned a few people off. It's quite understandable that a new and unique site would have these kind of problems - 7 months is not all that much time, after all - and the answer, of course, is simply to be persistent and get those features redesigned and built as required, until the site is fully functional as envisaged. Then I could expect people to start using it in earnest.
Unfortunately, I have persisted with this project as long as I reasonably can in light of other pressures in my life. The main problem, as with all startups, is capital. I have been funding this project from my own pocket since its inception, plus contributing a significant amount of time to it. This has seriously impacted not only my finances, but also my business. I have another Drupal 7 project that I'm developing for the Australian government, which is a very good project, probably the best I've ever had, and it's paying the bills. I can't afford to lose it. However, due to time invested in moonmars.com, I am now about 1-2 months behind on that project. I've made my excuses, but now am in the situation where I absolutely must deliver a site for them by February, and I can't risk anything impeding that goal. Unfortunately that includes moonmars.com.
Aside from this, my life this year has become almost completely overtaken by Drupal, which is simply not what I want my life to be about. Part of the reason I started building moonmars.com so I could write about space settlement. But I haven't had a lot of time for writing, or for many other things. My feeling now is that writing is much more likely to be my purpose than business, although perhaps there is room for both. But I need to make room for both.
Yet another consideration is the reality that social networks are simply not attracting the levels of enthusiastic investment they once did. Despite its incredible market valuation, Facebook is not an especially profitable website, and since going public they've been under pressure to introduce all kinds of new revenue streams, many of which are unloved. YouTube is another example of a highly-valued and trafficked site that ran at a loss for a long time, and only recently have Google figured out some innovative ways to monetise it with ads.
All of these sites must run ads in order to make money, and I, too, had assumed the first and most obvious way to generate revenue from moonmars.com would be through advertising, which is why the right-hand sidebar has remained empty. However, the increasing prevalence of online ads has tended to dilute their effectiveness and profitability, and ads are no longer the golden river that made Google so wealthy. Recognising this, I realised that the most important revenue stream for moonmars.com would most likely be by charging fees for usage of the virtual environment, which was, after all, the original purpose of the project. This could prove to be very profitable, but a tremendous amount of work would be required to get to that point. I decided to build a social network before the virtual environment because it would be easier, but to do even this by myself has proved impractical.
Do we even need another social network? Most of the conversation about space is now taking place on Facebook. Trying to migrate the conversation here would only serve to divide rather than consolidate it, which was my original goal. Even though I do still truly believe we can build something better than Facebook that is totally dedicated to space - a collaboration framework rather than a social network - and I would still like to see that goal realised, there is probably very little real need for an alternative social network at this time. Facebook is a free tool that we can and should use, along with Twitter and LinkedIn. If moonmars.com gets funded then I would continue to build the social networking features, since I believe we can introduce innovations that will produce a superior result that the mainstream alternatives. But for now, these tools are adequate, and I can't justify building something that isn't genuinely needed and may not even generate enough revenue to support its own development.
I am not closing the site down, as I think that would be too drastic and unnecessary an action to take at this time. However, unless the investor gods suddenly point their magical golden fingers at me, in order to secure the success of my other project, which is quite essential, we will not be able to do any work on moonmars.com until I've achieved certain milestones with my other website, which will be February - April 2013. If we do decide at that time to continue this project, we will evaluate what needs to be kept, what needs to be rebuilt, and whether we need to change focus and build something else instead - such as the virtual environment. (This change of direction is called "pivoting" in startup parlance.)
Building this site - what there is of it - has been educational and brought me some awesome new friends. I'm very grateful for the support I've received from all of you. I'm sorry that I couldn't deliver on all my promises, but that's life, and fortunately no kittens were harmed in the process
Mossy
Score: 5
Coral Horton
Female/1
MAROOCHYDORE, QLD, AU
I admire you very much, and agree your paying project should be your main priority, and also the quicker you finish that, the better you will feel in Feb/March about refocussing if necessary. You have done an amazing job, and I am sure your work will not die, maybe reinvent itself. Hopefully others will support you in this decision.
It was and still can be a great vision and I hope the site goes on to find its own level and life and momentum.
Frank Stratford
Male/41
Pakenham, VIC, AU
Members don't seem to understand that we need their donations to achieve some critical mass of funds so we can then start to take some steps towards our goals. Most spacers just sit around proposing idea after idea with no intention of backing their words with money or real support. Well, to achieve any goals we have requires money. Lets not kid ourselves. And if we can't even raise some initial funds to get our groups moving, is it any wonder so many groups are inactive or die? But all is not lost. There are still plenty of visionaries who put their money where there mouth is, from people like you Shaun to Elon Musk. It is the dedication, money and drive from such people that will see us reach our goals. I know many of us can be doing it tough financially, but I also know of dedicated space people who still donate money even when things are tough for them. If space matters to you, and is more than just a passing fad, you will give, even if it hurts. No bucks, no Buck Rogers
Rob Hunt
Male/54
Perth, WA, AU
Tony Jensen
Male/44
Denver, CO, US
second, i do not know much about programming and coding, but what about connecting moonmars to facebook like a facebook app. there is a facebook app called schoolfeed where you just use schoolfeed from facebook and its really nice you talk to all your old school peers. is that possible to connect moonmars as a facebook app? or would that be a whole prject itself? that way you can use the already giant social network of facebook where everyone is and also make a space enthusiast network inside of facebook and also you can reach out to more people. but again i know nothing about IT so its just a uneducated idea thrown out there by me haha
Shaun Moss
Male/41
Brisbane, QLD, AU
When I look at the moonmars.com logo and see how perfect and beautiful it is, I can't help but think that it is destined to be *something*. But it needs to be reviewed, reinvented and rethunk. Your idea, @zeds, is a good one. I have been thinking that in the next iteration the focus should be entirely on the virtual environment, and we hook it into Facebook using the FB platform for any social networking features we may need. So you could move seamlessly from one to the other as required.
There are a lot of free tools. We can use Facebook or Yahoo groups to discuss and develop settlement designs, Google Drive to create collaborative design documents as needed, and I'm sure there are sites for sharing 3D models. Then we construct settlements in the 3D world as planned. So you would come to moonmars.com and instantly be in a virtual world; that would be the main and only feature of the site. For proof-of-concept we might even look at building something, like a model Mars base, in Second Life, as an experiment. One thing I've learned from talking to @dan_lennox and reading "The Lean Startup" is the importance of conducting low-cost experiments to discover what users really want. This saves you from investing too much in the wrong things.
And this is the real question. What do users really want? Back in 1999, in the early days of the Mars Foundation (%mars-foundation), we had very ambitious plans for permanent human settlements on Mars. These plans were developed further by the 4 Frontiers Corporation. But these groups have faded out now. Where are the grassroots Moon and Mars settlement design plans now? I honestly don't know. Perhaps as a result of the NewSpace movement, plans like these have shifted to startups like Golden Spike and Mars One, and those of us in the enthusiast community don't feel we can easily engage with those plans.
It may simply be a timing thing. The world has changed a great deal since 1999, when I first thought of this project and when Mars settlement seemed just over the horizon. The internet and mobile technology have boomed, and Google and Facebook and smartphones have become integral parts of our lives. But at the same time, we have weathered the GFC, which has affected many nations, and global warming and climate change are now worryingly real and present. It's hard to maintain that optimistic vision of space settlement in the face of more immediate concerns. That's not to say we shouldn't maintain that vision of a positive human future - in fact, it's more important now than ever before. But it's still hard for people to make the time.
Anyway - we will see how things unfold. The site won't change over the next 2 months, but then we will have another look at it. I have observed many times in life that some things, especially creative projects, can benefit from being left alone for a bit. Then, when they are looked upon again with fresh eyes, new inspiration and clarity emerges to carry the idea through to a whole new level. I think this is what will happen.
Mossy
Coral Horton
Female/1
MAROOCHYDORE, QLD, AU
Koeng
US
First of all, there is the difficulty to contribute (without money). With Linux distros, everyone is welcome to check out the source code and help to make advancements. At moonmars, this is similar, ideas are spread to help make advancements. But to really help with linux, all you need is knowledge. For space forums, you need money. Some people are just not comfortable with giving money because of their lifestyle.
Next, there is making the project happen. With Linux, or BSD, or any other open source software area, advancements to the goal happen very quickly because all the contributors need is knowledge and time. In the space area, you need a whole lot of money and time. Most people interested aren't rich like elon musk! Lets give an example.
If everyone here could create their ideas, pursue our dream without money in the way, then where would we be?
-Koeng
Tony Jensen
Male/44
Denver, CO, US
I know that I would definitely have looked at the code if were open. Prior to contributing, you must understand the language, the frameworks, and the architecture. But I eat those for lunch so what's another one?
This deserves some pondering.
Michel Segeren
Male
Portland, ON, CA
Shaun Moss
Male/41
Brisbane, QLD, AU
I still think the purpose of the site needs some rethinking and reinvention. I've been thinking about converting it into a parallel Moon/Mars settlement design project, similar to what Mars Foundation used to be, and narrowing the focus to be just that. Our goal would be to develop a viable settlement design for both the Moon and Mars, and a feasible business plan that incorporates both. It would mean the site's "groups" would become design teams operating within a common project.