Moon and Mars

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Welcome to moonmars.com, the premier connection point for space enthusiasts from all over the world! moonmars.com is a collaboration framework dedicated to space exploration and settlement. If you're interested in making humanity a multiplanetary species, please join and participate in our wonderful community. Find out more about moonmars.com

BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
$742.24 worth of electronic components ordered to fulfill RocketHub orders and the upcoming 2013 SEDS SpaceVision hackathon. We are working on a leasing and credit approval system for people that can't afford the current $160 pre-sale price point. Our analysis shows that we can reach a sub $65 price point, once sales are above 1000 units.

Don't sit back tho! Be a leader and help bring the superior GDB to market by pre-ordering now (Shipping starts November 2013) http://www.solarsystemexpress.com/store.html
BlazeSanders in this channel
$742.24 worth of electronic components ordered to fulfill RocketHub orders and the upcoming 2013 SEDS SpaceVision hackathon. We are working on a leasing and credit approval system for people that can't afford the current $160 pre-sale price point. Our analysis shows that we can reach a sub $65 price point, once sales are above 1000 units.

Don't sit back tho! Be a leader and help bring the superior GDB to market by pre-ordering now (Shipping starts November 2013) http://www.solarsystemexpress.com/store.html
Score: 2
FrancoisDG
FrancoisDG
François Dewolf Giammattei
Male/39
WNA, BE
Hi Blaze and congratulation for the GDB !

Do you plan to submit the GDB to electromagnetic and ESD tests ? You should at least give more details about the maximum supported by the I/Os, isolation levels, ... even if it's estimated values and not measured ones.
There is plenty of labs doing this in the US, you should find one not too expensive...
Without any test certificate, from a commercial point of view your GDB has many chances to be borne dead unfortunately...

Few other question : why only digital and analog I/Os.... ? Most of the applications will probably need a serial or I²C bus... ?
why multiple video output (VGA, HDMI) and for what purpose/use ? 
Wireless interface ? Which one, and how ? (as I guess the radio hardware is not included on the GDB...)
Any calculated MTBF for a use on earth? And calculated MTBF for use in space ?

Last but not the least :
Is there already a product brief or any documentation giving more technical details than this very short page on the store of your web site?

Thanks in advance for your answer and good continuation :)
FrancoisDG
Hi Blaze and congratulation for the GDB !

Do you plan to submit the GDB to electromagnetic and ESD tests ? You should at least give more details about the maximum supported by the I/Os, isolation levels, ... even if it's estimated values and not measured ones.
There is plenty of labs doing this in the US, you should find one not too expensive...
Without any test certificate, from a commercial point of view your GDB has many chances to be borne dead unfortunately...

Few other question : why only digital and analog I/Os.... ? Most of the applications will probably need a serial or I²C bus... ?
why multiple video output (VGA, HDMI) and for what purpose/use ?
Wireless interface ? Which one, and how ? (as I guess the radio hardware is not included on the GDB...)
Any calculated MTBF for a use on earth? And calculated MTBF for use in space ?

Last but not the least :
Is there already a product brief or any documentation giving more technical details than this very short page on the store of your web site?

Thanks in advance for your answer and good continuation
Score: 1
Koeng
Koeng
Koeng
US
Hey does anyone know what happened to MoonMars all this time?
Koeng
Hey does anyone know what happened to MoonMars all this time?
Score: 0
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
It's still here :) I'm considering redeveloping it from scratch. I think trying to replicate common social networking functionality was a mistake. It should be integrated with facebook where most of the conversation is. Or perhaps the emphasis should not be on simple conversation, but actual projects. In any case, I haven't time for it at the moment.
mossy2100
It's still here I'm considering redeveloping it from scratch. I think trying to replicate common social networking functionality was a mistake. It should be integrated with facebook where most of the conversation is. Or perhaps the emphasis should not be on simple conversation, but actual projects. In any case, I haven't time for it at the moment.
Score: 0
BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
I still have faith in MM. Just need to find a smalllgrant ~$10,000+ so you can work hardcore on the site. I do like project focus over conversations too. Are my posts making MM to ad / business like?
BlazeSanders
I still have faith in MM. Just need to find a smalllgrant ~$10,000+ so you can work hardcore on the site. I do like project focus over conversations too. Are my posts making MM to ad / business like?
Score: 1
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
No, your posts are great. I still plan to develop MM and I'm really looking forward to when we have the resources to do so. It's going to be great! We'll get a good team together, do a redesign as a community, and make a really wonderful site.
mossy2100
No, your posts are great. I still plan to develop MM and I'm really looking forward to when we have the resources to do so. It's going to be great! We'll get a good team together, do a redesign as a community, and make a really wonderful site.
Score: 1
box
box
Balazs Imri
Male
Melbourne, VIC, AU
I am slowly
box
I am slowly "working" on my game idea, it is getting more and more fleshed out on paper. Started playing with Unity and Android app development. There is a huge potential to source funds from the game industry. Look at the recent success of Starbound, a small fraction of their success would be plenty to really kick off moon mars.

Now if you consider launching on the Asian markets as well as English speaking portion of the world we could hit jackpot. And the development costs don't have to be high as long as the game is designed the right way.
Score: 1
BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
@FrancoisDG - Sorry for missing your questions before :)
BlazeSanders
@FrancoisDG - Sorry for missing your questions before

"Do you plan to submit the GDB to electromagnetic and ESD tests?" Yes, a large aerospace company in the UK is providing $32,000 worth of free testing. - Pressure down to 1x10-5 ATM - Temperature -40 to 60 Degrees Celsius - Testing at the vibration profile of the Falcon 9, Ariane V, & Orbital Sciences Taurus rockets. - Radiation simulation at 1000 rad/yer - Broad spectrum EMI/RFI testing

"You should at least give more details about the maximum supported by the I/Os, isolation levels" I'm continuing to update that info here http://www.solarsystemexpress.com/software.html and had some basic info here back in Sept 2013 http://goo.gl/eoW1Fz

"Why only digital and analog I/Os.... ? Most of the applications will probably need a serial or I²C bus... ?" The GDB has serial USB, a I²C bus, a SPI bus, a software UART, and PWM pins.

"why multiple video output (VGA, HDMI) and for what purpose/use ?" The GDB could be used to drive multiple screens inside a spacecraft cockpit, or be handy for a AV high school club.

"Wireless interface ? Which one, and how? (as I guess the radio hardware is not included on the GDB...)" Anaren AIR ZigBee http://www.anaren.com/air/products/air-for-zigbee-standard-apps and it's $25 extra. It attaches to our Eject Seat. Our quick release breakout board (called Ejection Seat™) allows for easy prototyping, yet keeps the GDB form factor small and robust enough to use in New Space company initial product releases; saving time and lowering the cost to get to market from the prototype stage. DRAFTYoutube video http://youtu.be/6UR5-vQ7Rkk

"Any calculated MTBF for a use on earth? And calculated MTBF for use in space ?" This will come from the UK testing above.

"Is there already a product brief or any documentation giving more technical details than this very short page on the store of your web site?" http://www.solarsystemexpress.com/software.html
Score: 1
BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
$742.24 worth of electronic components ordered to fulfill RocketHub orders and the upcoming 2013 SEDS SpaceVision hackathon. We are working on a leasing and credit approval system for people that can't afford the current $160 pre-sale price point. Our analysis shows that we can reach a sub $65 price point, once sales are above 1000 units.

Don't sit back tho! Be a leader and help bring the superior GDB to market by pre-ordering now (Shipping starts November 2013) http://www.solarsystemexpress.com/store.html
BlazeSanders in this channel
$742.24 worth of electronic components ordered to fulfill RocketHub orders and the upcoming 2013 SEDS SpaceVision hackathon. We are working on a leasing and credit approval system for people that can't afford the current $160 pre-sale price point. Our analysis shows that we can reach a sub $65 price point, once sales are above 1000 units.

Don't sit back tho! Be a leader and help bring the superior GDB to market by pre-ordering now (Shipping starts November 2013) http://www.solarsystemexpress.com/store.html
Score: 1
BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
Enter a $1 raffle to send your name into space on the Sol-X home page. We draw one random winner on the last day of every month. Less than 20 people have entered the first raffle, and we expect next months raffle to be larger. So buy now!
BlazeSanders in this channel
Enter a $1 raffle to send your name into space on the Sol-X home page. We draw one random winner on the last day of every month. Less than 20 people have entered the first raffle, and we expect next months raffle to be larger. So buy now!
Score: 1
BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
Join Sol-X  and Juxtopia Engineers in Training (JET's) for a open public discussion about how to use the GDB in your (Earth or Space) application. See past applications of the GDB at http://goo.gl/amoX99

The JET's (high school kids) will be be asking questions about how to use the GDB in a robotic lawn mower. What will you build?

73,
Blaze Sanders
Sol-X CTO

Contact Info:
Email: CTO@solarsystemexpress.com
Office: 202-657-6567
BlazeSanders in this channel
Join Sol-X and Juxtopia Engineers in Training (JET's) for a open public discussion about how to use the GDB in your (Earth or Space) application. See past applications of the GDB at http://goo.gl/amoX99

The JET's (high school kids) will be be asking questions about how to use the GDB in a robotic lawn mower. What will you build?

73,
Blaze Sanders
Sol-X CTO

Contact Info:
Email: CTO@solarsystemexpress.com
Office: 202-657-6567
Score: 0
BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
Can we use this for MoonMars? Or do you Martians like www.sunglass.io better? You can embedded Sunglass models in websites with iFrames, like www.solspike.com
BlazeSanders in this channel
Can we use this for MoonMars? Or do you Martians like www.sunglass.io better? You can embedded Sunglass models in websites with iFrames, like www.solspike.com
Score: 0
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
You would be more qualified than anyone to say which would be a better choice for viewing 3D models in a browser. But this is great - well discovered.
mossy2100
You would be more qualified than anyone to say which would be a better choice for viewing 3D models in a browser. But this is great - well discovered.
Score: 0
BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
They are about equal, website integration is the more important thing if MoonMars is going to grow. I used Sunglass on www.solspike.com and will evaluate the 3D Systems after Sept 9, 2013

The future 3D environment for MoonMars is what really intrigues me :) The Unity engine is pretty cool too...
BlazeSanders
They are about equal, website integration is the more important thing if MoonMars is going to grow. I used Sunglass on www.solspike.com and will evaluate the 3D Systems after Sept 9, 2013

The future 3D environment for MoonMars is what really intrigues me The Unity engine is pretty cool too...
Score: 0
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
This created a beautifully strange email :)
mossy2100
This created a beautifully strange email
Score: 0
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Starting a new thread to discuss the future of the site and next most important developments. Please comment here rather than the previous news item. Gracias!
mossy2100 in this channel
Starting a new thread to discuss the future of the site and next most important developments. Please comment here rather than the previous news item. Gracias!
Score: 0
BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
Good idea creating a new post :) I would like to come back around to the idea of purchasing ad space on MM and runing the following contest on MM www.goo.gl/T1W4o
BlazeSanders
Good idea creating a new post I would like to come back around to the idea of purchasing ad space on MM and runing the following contest on MM www.goo.gl/T1W4o
Score: 3
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Ok well let's make this happen.
mossy2100
Ok well let's make this happen.
Score: 0
box
box
Balazs Imri
Male
Melbourne, VIC, AU
develop extremely simple game combined with simple networking platform --> generate seed fund --> generate community --> generate more complex game/networking platform --->to encourage people to form or join makerspaces and start making things ---> to distribute workload ---> by funding small amateur projects /like what spaceGAMBIT does/ ---> then integrate the products generated by the network using funding generated by the network ---> into one large scale end product (opensource microsatellite launcher platform, or space farming, or complex robotic operations in orbit or on moons or planets, or my dream goal which is an extremely low cost access to orbit even compared to SpaceX's ambitions on the order of 100s of dollars / kg) ---> which then is sold to ourselves through various companies that base their products on opensource technologies or maybe one monster open source aerospace company. Or something along those lines. I am still at step 0 which is learning programming, and finding other people with similar goals. Possibly ranting at said people isn't the best approach to building networks. :)" alt="I don't know if I am being helpful but I am just trying to rant out loud here: I am doing a Udacity course on Startups. It is very informative, I am a bit stuck because I am short of time. Anyway in general it explains how a Startup's role is to search for a viable business model by actually testing hypothesises about various aspects of the business model, and dynamically changing the model through testing hypothesises and generating new ones. First aspect of the business model it explores is the Market. They explain the importance of testing hypothesises about the market through talking to actual potential customers, or finding other resources that could answer questions like market size, distribution, demographics etc... This is why I asked you a couple of questions in the News thread. I thought it should fit here better. So basically have you done any of this process. I know you have been to conferences and such, but have you collected data about the users, or the potential users etc? Do you have a questionaire or poll of some sort that we could use to properly probe the space crazies about your product or any potential product you have been planning? The reason to why this group hasn't gained much traction is probably because there is a discrepancy between what spacecrazies like and want, and what is offered here. I have this on my long to do lists for my project, but thought it would be worth to try pooling resources, after all we are aiming for the same goal. About a potential space community game: I believe that the simpler the game the larger the potential market it can cover, the speed of coverage could be insane too because of the ease of and speed of "getting addicted" to simple games. I think any Orbiter or Kerbal Space Program clone, hybrid or improvement would really only cover a very small fragment of the potential interested people. Of course the app market is tough in its own with all those millions of apps out there, but I don't think there is much out there targetting the community we have in mind to build. I could be completely wrong, but I keep seeing the success of extremely simple apps or browser games and it makes me think that that direction would be the best. It doesn't mean that a more serious modelling platform shouldn't be developed, but without a large sized community or interest such development is extremely hard. Especially for people with not much programming experience such as myself. Also a simple app could be used to try and expand the "spacecrazies" camp by recruiting new people through exposure to ideas, concepts or internet content. Social Networking: To me it has become extremely time consuming and confusing. The simpler the system and the less information overload it generates the better. It becomes harder and harder to weed out important information from just random stuff. Also I am not sure how much time is actually "useful" time to be spent on such networks. The only reason I have been trying to join as many groups as possible is because there is no other way to actually get in contanct with people who might be doing the same thing you want to do. To me it seems that the actual hands on groups like makerspaces, and groups that can physically meet should be units of operations of any extremely large scale open space organisation needed for serious amateur space R&D /millions of people, hundreds of millions of dollars yearly budget/. There are a fair few projects like moonmars or opennautics out there, and the only ones that are actually successful are ones that started out with actually making things vs. just talking about making things. Like Copenhagen Suborbitals. I wan't to try and get into the middle of it all, I wan't to be able to generate enough revenue so we could pump money into projects that investors or governments wouldn't touch because of low chance of profits, too slow projected returns, or just being plain tight asses. :) We need a whole lot more money towards R&D and more man hours working on R&D if we want to get a chance at orbital flight before we die. I have only around 30 years, and if the price doesn't fall fast and low enough I will never get the chance to float around this planet or plant my foot on the moon. In order for that to happen we need millions if not tens of millions up living in space in that timeframe. It's a couple of orders of magnitude more activity than what any sane person or organisation predicts for the next couple of decades, but anything less won't do. So after that rant, here is a sum up of my naive plan I am trying to work on: learn programming, find other people with similar goals ---> develop extremely simple game combined with simple networking platform --> generate seed fund --> generate community --> generate more complex game/networking platform --->to encourage people to form or join makerspaces and start making things ---> to distribute workload ---> by funding small amateur projects /like what spaceGAMBIT does/ ---> then integrate the products generated by the network using funding generated by the network ---> into one large scale end product (opensource microsatellite launcher platform, or space farming, or complex robotic operations in orbit or on moons or planets, or my dream goal which is an extremely low cost access to orbit even compared to SpaceX's ambitions on the order of 100s of dollars / kg) ---> which then is sold to ourselves through various companies that base their products on opensource technologies or maybe one monster open source aerospace company. Or something along those lines. I am still at step 0 which is learning programming, and finding other people with similar goals. Possibly ranting at said people isn't the best approach to building networks. :)">
box
I don't know if I am being helpful but I am just trying to rant out loud here:

I am doing a Udacity course on Startups. It is very informative, I am a bit stuck because I am short of time.

Anyway in general it explains how a Startup's role is to search for a viable business model by actually testing hypothesises about various aspects of the business model, and dynamically changing the model through testing hypothesises and generating new ones.

First aspect of the business model it explores is the Market. They explain the importance of testing hypothesises about the market through talking to actual potential customers, or finding other resources that could answer questions like market size, distribution, demographics etc...

This is why I asked you a couple of questions in the News thread. I thought it should fit here better.

So basically have you done any of this process. I know you have been to conferences and such, but have you collected data about the users, or the potential users etc?

Do you have a questionaire or poll of some sort that we could use to properly probe the space crazies about your product or any potential product you have been planning?

The reason to why this group hasn't gained much traction is probably because there is a discrepancy between what spacecrazies like and want, and what is offered here.

I have this on my long to do lists for my project, but thought it would be worth to try pooling resources, after all we are aiming for the same goal.

About a potential space community game:
I believe that the simpler the game the larger the potential market it can cover, the speed of coverage could be insane too because of the ease of and speed of "getting addicted" to simple games. I think any Orbiter or Kerbal Space Program clone, hybrid or improvement would really only cover a very small fragment of the potential interested people. Of course the app market is tough in its own with all those millions of apps out there, but I don't think there is much out there targetting the community we have in mind to build.

I could be completely wrong, but I keep seeing the success of extremely simple apps or browser games and it makes me think that that direction would be the best. It doesn't mean that a more serious modelling platform shouldn't be developed, but without a large sized community or interest such development is extremely hard. Especially for people with not much programming experience such as myself.

Also a simple app could be used to try and expand the "spacecrazies" camp by recruiting new people through exposure to ideas, concepts or internet content.

Social Networking:
To me it has become extremely time consuming and confusing. The simpler the system and the less information overload it generates the better. It becomes harder and harder to weed out important information from just random stuff. Also I am not sure how much time is actually "useful" time to be spent on such networks.

The only reason I have been trying to join as many groups as possible is because there is no other way to actually get in contanct with people who might be doing the same thing you want to do.

To me it seems that the actual hands on groups like makerspaces, and groups that can physically meet should be units of operations of any extremely large scale open space organisation needed for serious amateur space R&D /millions of people, hundreds of millions of dollars yearly budget/.

There are a fair few projects like moonmars or opennautics out there, and the only ones that are actually successful are ones that started out with actually making things vs. just talking about making things. Like Copenhagen Suborbitals.

I wan't to try and get into the middle of it all, I wan't to be able to generate enough revenue so we could pump money into projects that investors or governments wouldn't touch because of low chance of profits, too slow projected returns, or just being plain tight asses. We need a whole lot more money towards R&D and more man hours working on R&D if we want to get a chance at orbital flight before we die. I have only around 30 years, and if the price doesn't fall fast and low enough I will never get the chance to float around this planet or plant my foot on the moon. In order for that to happen we need millions if not tens of millions up living in space in that timeframe. It's a couple of orders of magnitude more activity than what any sane person or organisation predicts for the next couple of decades, but anything less won't do.

So after that rant, here is a sum up of my naive plan I am trying to work on: learn programming, find other people with similar goals ---> develop extremely simple game combined with simple networking platform --> generate seed fund --> generate community --> generate more complex game/networking platform --->to encourage people to form or join makerspaces and start making things ---> to distribute workload ---> by funding small amateur projects /like what spaceGAMBIT does/ ---> then integrate the products generated by the network using funding generated by the network ---> into one large scale end product (opensource microsatellite launcher platform, or space farming, or complex robotic operations in orbit or on moons or planets, or my dream goal which is an extremely low cost access to orbit even compared to SpaceX's ambitions on the order of 100s of dollars / kg) ---> which then is sold to ourselves through various companies that base their products on opensource technologies or maybe one monster open source aerospace company.

Or something along those lines. I am still at step 0 which is learning programming, and finding other people with similar goals. Possibly ranting at said people isn't the best approach to building networks.
Score: 2
williamwaldon
williamwaldon
US
Hello everyone. First let me introduce myself. I've been lurking for a while and decided to post this morning for the first time. My name is William and I am the Founder/Editor of http://www.spaceindustrynews.com ---- which needs a design overhaul. My day job is Senior Front End Web Developer and UX/UI guy.  If you need ANY help in those departments I can donate some time to MM. MM is such an awesome community and I'd be more than happy to lend a hand. Mossy, if you want to contact me directly please feel free :)
williamwaldon
Hello everyone. First let me introduce myself. I've been lurking for a while and decided to post this morning for the first time. My name is William and I am the Founder/Editor of http://www.spaceindustrynews.com ---- which needs a design overhaul. My day job is Senior Front End Web Developer and UX/UI guy. If you need ANY help in those departments I can donate some time to MM. MM is such an awesome community and I'd be more than happy to lend a hand. Mossy, if you want to contact me directly please feel free
Score: 3
BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
Cool @mossy2100 we can finalize it our 6/3/2013 10 pm USA EST Google Hangout. Do we want to make this a more public meeting? (In the beginning at least) Just send your email to CTO@solarsystemexpress.com and I will add you to the Hangout.
BlazeSanders
Cool @mossy2100 we can finalize it our 6/3/2013 10 pm USA EST Google Hangout. Do we want to make this a more public meeting? (In the beginning at least) Just send your email to CTO@solarsystemexpress.com and I will add you to the Hangout.
Score: 1
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Hi @box - sorry for the slow reply, I've been travelling.

You're right - I haven't done a great deal of market research. I started with a concept and just started building it :) The goal is to provide a hub for the space community as a whole, to collaborate on space settlement planning and missions, and to provide them with an online community with all the necessary software to support that. What we've had for so long is this really disparate collection of websites, forums, skype chats, basecamp projects, facebook groups, etc., etc. I wanted to bring all that together, to better organise the enthusiasm of the community. However, I shouldn't try to replicate the functionality of those groups. What we have here is ok, but needs more development.

The original concept of the virtual environment was to build models of space settlements in VR, so we could explore and improve them. The game concept actually came earlier, a role-playing game where we pretend to be settling the Solar System (or at least Mars) a few decades in the future. I decided these concepts are best combined for optimal effect. There's plenty of evidence for the upside of games. The concept eventually developed is less of a game and more a virtual world with economics, very much like Second Life. The game/VE will harness the participants imagination about the future.

@BlazeSanders happy to do that :)
mossy2100
Hi @box - sorry for the slow reply, I've been travelling.

You're right - I haven't done a great deal of market research. I started with a concept and just started building it The goal is to provide a hub for the space community as a whole, to collaborate on space settlement planning and missions, and to provide them with an online community with all the necessary software to support that. What we've had for so long is this really disparate collection of websites, forums, skype chats, basecamp projects, facebook groups, etc., etc. I wanted to bring all that together, to better organise the enthusiasm of the community. However, I shouldn't try to replicate the functionality of those groups. What we have here is ok, but needs more development.

The original concept of the virtual environment was to build models of space settlements in VR, so we could explore and improve them. The game concept actually came earlier, a role-playing game where we pretend to be settling the Solar System (or at least Mars) a few decades in the future. I decided these concepts are best combined for optimal effect. There's plenty of evidence for the upside of games. The concept eventually developed is less of a game and more a virtual world with economics, very much like Second Life. The game/VE will harness the participants imagination about the future.

@BlazeSanders happy to do that
Score: 0
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
@williamwaldon - thanks for your kind offer :) Are you familiar with Drupal 7?
mossy2100
@williamwaldon - thanks for your kind offer Are you familiar with Drupal 7?
Score: 0
box
box
Balazs Imri
Male
Melbourne, VIC, AU
@mossy2100 The only reason I mentioned market research is because I have seen a couple other groups like this and all seem to be stagnating at a very low level of activity not really getting anywhere. I am wondering if it is because the set up of these places don't match what we really need to keep interest and get things done, or I am just too early and all these places need more time to get proper traction, or it could be there isn't really a large
box
@mossy2100 The only reason I mentioned market research is because I have seen a couple other groups like this and all seem to be stagnating at a very low level of activity not really getting anywhere. I am wondering if it is because the set up of these places don't match what we really need to keep interest and get things done, or I am just too early and all these places need more time to get proper traction, or it could be there isn't really a large "crowd" out there to serve with such services to begin with.

Anyway you are way far ahead of what I ever could achieve myself, it is great to be here.

Regarding the VR environment: How far have you got regarding the design and implementation of it? In how much detail would it model physics? What language and what engines or libraries are you using?
Score: 0
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Actually I don't think market research is the problem here, although it's still a good idea, of course.

One problem is design - the vision I had for the site was overly ambitious and beyond what I could achieve myself working part-time. And now I have even more ideas for it! The core concept here is quite good, but it needs to be finished. That means fixing up the messaging system (planned features include attachments, conversations, tagging, cross-posting, etc.), and finishing off the functionality for the groups, topics and member levels. That will basically complete the core social network/discussion forum. However, building what we currently have took about 7 months part-time. Software development is slow (or, at least, I'm slow at it, because I tend to labour, Jobs-like, over details).

However, the main issue is purely time and money, as is often the case. I am currently working on solving this problem so I can return to building the site, with a crew. I have tried to raise investment and have emailed dozens of people. I have written to TechMediaNetwork, who I thought this would be absolutely perfect for, with no reply. I have spoken to Steve Jurvetson, but he wasn't even remotely interested. His interest was only piqued momentarily when I talked about an online game, because people can understand that that's a multi-million dollar market. Facebook was a successful social network that attracted massive investment because of proven rapid growth. This was a combination of good front and back-end design, good leadership by Zuckerbeg, and targeting the platform at a specific niche perfectly suited to social networking - college students. However, the space community is, at a very rough guess, maybe less than one million people, maybe around 250,000. Ok, it will grow exponentially, but no VC or angel investor is going to get excited about such a small market, especially without proof of impressive site growth or usage.

After making such efforts and getting no interest, and not being able to show rapid huge growth or large user base, or a revenue model, it became obvious that it's going to be hard if not impossible to raise investment capital without a lot more work being done on the site to build it up. Personally I didn't have time to keep working on it, and don't now either. My current spare-time focus has shifted to http://marssettlement.org, my blog where I share ideas about Mars settlement. The intention is for both things to work in harmony actually - to build a community here where we can share such ideas and actually develop them.

I think that the space community wants this - at least, that's the feedback I've got from everyone I've spoken to at space conferences (I went to 5 last year and promoted this site at each). But they aren't providing money, just support. Even if we did market research and every single person in the space community said, yes, we want this, and we want it to have this or that feature, it wouldn't matter because the market is still too small, because it's a niche product.

Then again, maybe I've been thinking too big in terms of raising money. This isn't the next facebook. It can be developed as a small project, with just a few hundred thousand $ if necessary, maybe even less. But even so - we need to show any investor that they can expect an ROI. That means ads. Do we want to use Google ads? I hate Google ads, but if we have to, we could.

One approach we could take is to develop the game concept, build a demo, raise money for it, build the game, make money, and funnel some of it into building moonmars.com. That would work, but it would be a long road and the site might not get attention for a long time. Still, here we all still are, talking about it, even after a few months of no development, which tells me a lot.

Sorry this post is a bit disorganised and rambling, just thinking out loud really.

Regarding the VR environment - we have permission to use the code for http://www.orbitingeden.com/orrery/orrery.html which is mostly JavaScript. It models physics quite well. However, I'd like to redevelop a lot of it and do more on the back-end, in Java, to develop a persistent VE.
mossy2100
Actually I don't think market research is the problem here, although it's still a good idea, of course.

One problem is design - the vision I had for the site was overly ambitious and beyond what I could achieve myself working part-time. And now I have even more ideas for it! The core concept here is quite good, but it needs to be finished. That means fixing up the messaging system (planned features include attachments, conversations, tagging, cross-posting, etc.), and finishing off the functionality for the groups, topics and member levels. That will basically complete the core social network/discussion forum. However, building what we currently have took about 7 months part-time. Software development is slow (or, at least, I'm slow at it, because I tend to labour, Jobs-like, over details).

However, the main issue is purely time and money, as is often the case. I am currently working on solving this problem so I can return to building the site, with a crew. I have tried to raise investment and have emailed dozens of people. I have written to TechMediaNetwork, who I thought this would be absolutely perfect for, with no reply. I have spoken to Steve Jurvetson, but he wasn't even remotely interested. His interest was only piqued momentarily when I talked about an online game, because people can understand that that's a multi-million dollar market. Facebook was a successful social network that attracted massive investment because of proven rapid growth. This was a combination of good front and back-end design, good leadership by Zuckerbeg, and targeting the platform at a specific niche perfectly suited to social networking - college students. However, the space community is, at a very rough guess, maybe less than one million people, maybe around 250,000. Ok, it will grow exponentially, but no VC or angel investor is going to get excited about such a small market, especially without proof of impressive site growth or usage.

After making such efforts and getting no interest, and not being able to show rapid huge growth or large user base, or a revenue model, it became obvious that it's going to be hard if not impossible to raise investment capital without a lot more work being done on the site to build it up. Personally I didn't have time to keep working on it, and don't now either. My current spare-time focus has shifted to http://marssettlement.org, my blog where I share ideas about Mars settlement. The intention is for both things to work in harmony actually - to build a community here where we can share such ideas and actually develop them.

I think that the space community wants this - at least, that's the feedback I've got from everyone I've spoken to at space conferences (I went to 5 last year and promoted this site at each). But they aren't providing money, just support. Even if we did market research and every single person in the space community said, yes, we want this, and we want it to have this or that feature, it wouldn't matter because the market is still too small, because it's a niche product.

Then again, maybe I've been thinking too big in terms of raising money. This isn't the next facebook. It can be developed as a small project, with just a few hundred thousand $ if necessary, maybe even less. But even so - we need to show any investor that they can expect an ROI. That means ads. Do we want to use Google ads? I hate Google ads, but if we have to, we could.

One approach we could take is to develop the game concept, build a demo, raise money for it, build the game, make money, and funnel some of it into building moonmars.com. That would work, but it would be a long road and the site might not get attention for a long time. Still, here we all still are, talking about it, even after a few months of no development, which tells me a lot.

Sorry this post is a bit disorganised and rambling, just thinking out loud really.

Regarding the VR environment - we have permission to use the code for http://www.orbitingeden.com/orrery/orrery.html which is mostly JavaScript. It models physics quite well. However, I'd like to redevelop a lot of it and do more on the back-end, in Java, to develop a persistent VE.
Score: 0
williamwaldon
williamwaldon
US
@mossy2100 I'm not familiar with Drupal, I'm more of a Wordpress guy. But I'm willing to learn. I can help with design and User Interface stuff too. Just let me know what you need :)
williamwaldon
@mossy2100 I'm not familiar with Drupal, I'm more of a Wordpress guy. But I'm willing to learn. I can help with design and User Interface stuff too. Just let me know what you need
Score: 1
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
mossy2100
"Shaun"
Score: 0
box
box
Balazs Imri
Male
Melbourne, VIC, AU
We are operating on guesses. By
box
We are operating on guesses. By "we" I mean people trying to bring a large number of space enthusiasts into one spot to try and do actual work. I think if we get to the bottom of those guesses, what we all assume, and what the actual reality is, we can crack this.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you are also aiming for a fair sized community developed and run space program. Hundreds of thousands or millions of people involved. There is no point to have a blog or a wiki of opensource ideas, or even more specific design ideas if we cannot actually fund the construction and testing of the hardware.

The advantage of governments or people with tons of money is that they acquire funds tangentially from the crowd. Big companies make profit on products people want now. Then channel a portion of that funding towards space related investments. Governments simply take the money by taxing the crowd. If we cannat package this project in a form that the crowd can easily swallow, digest, and support it will never get to the same levels as government or private funded space related R&D projects.
Score: 1
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
That's true - what I had in mind was crowd-sourcing designs of hardware, missions and businesses, develop real business plans for real missions, and take these to investors. But in the meantime we make money from offering services such as use of the virtual environment, advertising, commissions on selling products through an online shop - things of that nature.
mossy2100
That's true - what I had in mind was crowd-sourcing designs of hardware, missions and businesses, develop real business plans for real missions, and take these to investors. But in the meantime we make money from offering services such as use of the virtual environment, advertising, commissions on selling products through an online shop - things of that nature.
Score: 0
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Hi everyone

This is a somewhat difficult news item to post so I will take my time and endeavour to be as clear as possible.

For perhaps a month now I have been having doubts about how to best tackle continued development on moonmars.com. Despite having worked very hard on it for about 7 months, including travelling to the US and Australia and promoting it at 5 space conferences, it has failed (so far) to generate a significant level of activity, or to attract business partners or funding of any kind. Everyone says it's a great idea and is very positive and enthusiastic about it, but the results tell the story. The site is simply not being used very much.

This is easily attributable to the fact that it is still very much in beta, and some of the core features have not been developed. Others need to be completely redesigned and rebuilt, plus we had a number of bugs there for a while that I could not spare time to fix, and which I suspect turned a few people off. It's quite understandable that a new and unique site would have these kind of problems - 7 months is not all that much time, after all - and the answer, of course, is simply to be persistent and get those features redesigned and built as required, until the site is fully functional as envisaged. Then I could expect people to start using it in earnest.

Unfortunately, I have persisted with this project as long as I reasonably can in light of other pressures in my life. The main problem, as with all startups, is capital. I have been funding this project from my own pocket since its inception, plus contributing a significant amount of time to it. This has seriously impacted not only my finances, but also my business. I have another Drupal 7 project that I'm developing for the Australian government, which is a very good project, probably the best I've ever had, and it's paying the bills. I can't afford to lose it. However, due to time invested in moonmars.com, I am now about 1-2 months behind on that project. I've made my excuses, but now am in the situation where I absolutely must deliver a site for them by February, and I can't risk anything impeding that goal. Unfortunately that includes moonmars.com.

Aside from this, my life this year has become almost completely overtaken by Drupal, which is simply not what I want my life to be about. Part of the reason I started building moonmars.com so I could write about space settlement. But I haven't had a lot of time for writing, or for many other things. My feeling now is that writing is much more likely to be my purpose than business, although perhaps there is room for both. But I need to make room for both.

Yet another consideration is the reality that social networks are simply not attracting the levels of enthusiastic investment they once did. Despite its incredible market valuation, Facebook is not an especially profitable website, and since going public they've been under pressure to introduce all kinds of new revenue streams, many of which are unloved. YouTube is another example of a highly-valued and trafficked site that ran at a loss for a long time, and only recently have Google figured out some innovative ways to monetise it with ads.

All of these sites must run ads in order to make money, and I, too, had assumed the first and most obvious way to generate revenue from moonmars.com would be through advertising, which is why the right-hand sidebar has remained empty. However, the increasing prevalence of online ads has tended to dilute their effectiveness and profitability, and ads are no longer the golden river that made Google so wealthy. Recognising this, I realised that the most important revenue stream for moonmars.com would most likely be by charging fees for usage of the virtual environment, which was, after all, the original purpose of the project. This could prove to be very profitable, but a tremendous amount of work would be required to get to that point. I decided to build a social network before the virtual environment because it would be easier, but to do even this by myself has proved impractical.

Do we even need another social network? Most of the conversation about space is now taking place on Facebook. Trying to migrate the conversation here would only serve to divide rather than consolidate it, which was my original goal. Even though I do still truly believe we can build something better than Facebook that is totally dedicated to space - a collaboration framework rather than a social network - and I would still like to see that goal realised, there is probably very little real need for an alternative social network at this time. Facebook is a free tool that we can and should use, along with Twitter and LinkedIn. If moonmars.com gets funded then I would continue to build the social networking features, since I believe we can introduce innovations that will produce a superior result that the mainstream alternatives. But for now, these tools are adequate, and I can't justify building something that isn't genuinely needed and may not even generate enough revenue to support its own development.

I am not closing the site down, as I think that would be too drastic and unnecessary an action to take at this time. However, unless the investor gods suddenly point their magical golden fingers at me, in order to secure the success of my other project, which is quite essential, we will not be able to do any work on moonmars.com until I've achieved certain milestones with my other website, which will be February - April 2013. If we do decide at that time to continue this project, we will evaluate what needs to be kept, what needs to be rebuilt, and whether we need to change focus and build something else instead - such as the virtual environment. (This change of direction is called
mossy2100 in this channel
Hi everyone

This is a somewhat difficult news item to post so I will take my time and endeavour to be as clear as possible.

For perhaps a month now I have been having doubts about how to best tackle continued development on moonmars.com. Despite having worked very hard on it for about 7 months, including travelling to the US and Australia and promoting it at 5 space conferences, it has failed (so far) to generate a significant level of activity, or to attract business partners or funding of any kind. Everyone says it's a great idea and is very positive and enthusiastic about it, but the results tell the story. The site is simply not being used very much.

This is easily attributable to the fact that it is still very much in beta, and some of the core features have not been developed. Others need to be completely redesigned and rebuilt, plus we had a number of bugs there for a while that I could not spare time to fix, and which I suspect turned a few people off. It's quite understandable that a new and unique site would have these kind of problems - 7 months is not all that much time, after all - and the answer, of course, is simply to be persistent and get those features redesigned and built as required, until the site is fully functional as envisaged. Then I could expect people to start using it in earnest.

Unfortunately, I have persisted with this project as long as I reasonably can in light of other pressures in my life. The main problem, as with all startups, is capital. I have been funding this project from my own pocket since its inception, plus contributing a significant amount of time to it. This has seriously impacted not only my finances, but also my business. I have another Drupal 7 project that I'm developing for the Australian government, which is a very good project, probably the best I've ever had, and it's paying the bills. I can't afford to lose it. However, due to time invested in moonmars.com, I am now about 1-2 months behind on that project. I've made my excuses, but now am in the situation where I absolutely must deliver a site for them by February, and I can't risk anything impeding that goal. Unfortunately that includes moonmars.com.

Aside from this, my life this year has become almost completely overtaken by Drupal, which is simply not what I want my life to be about. Part of the reason I started building moonmars.com so I could write about space settlement. But I haven't had a lot of time for writing, or for many other things. My feeling now is that writing is much more likely to be my purpose than business, although perhaps there is room for both. But I need to make room for both.

Yet another consideration is the reality that social networks are simply not attracting the levels of enthusiastic investment they once did. Despite its incredible market valuation, Facebook is not an especially profitable website, and since going public they've been under pressure to introduce all kinds of new revenue streams, many of which are unloved. YouTube is another example of a highly-valued and trafficked site that ran at a loss for a long time, and only recently have Google figured out some innovative ways to monetise it with ads.

All of these sites must run ads in order to make money, and I, too, had assumed the first and most obvious way to generate revenue from moonmars.com would be through advertising, which is why the right-hand sidebar has remained empty. However, the increasing prevalence of online ads has tended to dilute their effectiveness and profitability, and ads are no longer the golden river that made Google so wealthy. Recognising this, I realised that the most important revenue stream for moonmars.com would most likely be by charging fees for usage of the virtual environment, which was, after all, the original purpose of the project. This could prove to be very profitable, but a tremendous amount of work would be required to get to that point. I decided to build a social network before the virtual environment because it would be easier, but to do even this by myself has proved impractical.

Do we even need another social network? Most of the conversation about space is now taking place on Facebook. Trying to migrate the conversation here would only serve to divide rather than consolidate it, which was my original goal. Even though I do still truly believe we can build something better than Facebook that is totally dedicated to space - a collaboration framework rather than a social network - and I would still like to see that goal realised, there is probably very little real need for an alternative social network at this time. Facebook is a free tool that we can and should use, along with Twitter and LinkedIn. If moonmars.com gets funded then I would continue to build the social networking features, since I believe we can introduce innovations that will produce a superior result that the mainstream alternatives. But for now, these tools are adequate, and I can't justify building something that isn't genuinely needed and may not even generate enough revenue to support its own development.

I am not closing the site down, as I think that would be too drastic and unnecessary an action to take at this time. However, unless the investor gods suddenly point their magical golden fingers at me, in order to secure the success of my other project, which is quite essential, we will not be able to do any work on moonmars.com until I've achieved certain milestones with my other website, which will be February - April 2013. If we do decide at that time to continue this project, we will evaluate what needs to be kept, what needs to be rebuilt, and whether we need to change focus and build something else instead - such as the virtual environment. (This change of direction is called "pivoting" in startup parlance.)

Building this site - what there is of it - has been educational and brought me some awesome new friends. I'm very grateful for the support I've received from all of you. I'm sorry that I couldn't deliver on all my promises, but that's life, and fortunately no kittens were harmed in the process

Mossy
Score: 5
Coral
Coral
Coral Horton
Female/2
MAROOCHYDORE, QLD, AU
Well firstly thank goodness about the kittens.

I admire you very much, and agree your paying project should be your main priority, and also the quicker you finish that, the better you will feel in Feb/March about refocussing if necessary. You have done an amazing job, and I am sure your work will not die, maybe reinvent itself. Hopefully others will support you in this decision.

It was and still can be a great vision and I hope the site goes on to find its own level and life and momentum.
Coral
Well firstly thank goodness about the kittens.

I admire you very much, and agree your paying project should be your main priority, and also the quicker you finish that, the better you will feel in Feb/March about refocussing if necessary. You have done an amazing job, and I am sure your work will not die, maybe reinvent itself. Hopefully others will support you in this decision.

It was and still can be a great vision and I hope the site goes on to find its own level and life and momentum.
Score: 1
FrankS
FrankS
Frank Stratford
Male/42
Pakenham, VIC, AU
I was just thinking of this site today Shaun and how quiet it is. I have said many times to people thinking of starting online space efforts that they need to take a long hard look at the space community and historical patterns of usage before they start up but few listen. Sadly, the online space community that we know and love are not a source of revenue or growth or even action, so besides the odd comments made in discussions, this is all we have. All space groups are struggling to grow or survive. This really comes down to one foundational problem.

Members don't seem to understand that we need their donations to achieve some critical mass of funds so we can then start to take some steps towards our goals. Most spacers just sit around proposing idea after idea with no intention of backing their words with money or real support. Well, to achieve any goals we have requires money. Lets not kid ourselves. And if we can't even raise some initial funds to get our groups moving, is it any wonder so many groups are inactive or die? But all is not lost. There are still plenty of visionaries who put their money where there mouth is, from people like you Shaun to Elon Musk. It is the dedication, money and drive from such people that will see us reach our goals. I know many of us can be doing it tough financially, but I also know of dedicated space people who still donate money even when things are tough for them. If space matters to you, and is more than just a passing fad, you will give, even if it hurts. No bucks, no Buck Rogers :)
FrankS
I was just thinking of this site today Shaun and how quiet it is. I have said many times to people thinking of starting online space efforts that they need to take a long hard look at the space community and historical patterns of usage before they start up but few listen. Sadly, the online space community that we know and love are not a source of revenue or growth or even action, so besides the odd comments made in discussions, this is all we have. All space groups are struggling to grow or survive. This really comes down to one foundational problem.

Members don't seem to understand that we need their donations to achieve some critical mass of funds so we can then start to take some steps towards our goals. Most spacers just sit around proposing idea after idea with no intention of backing their words with money or real support. Well, to achieve any goals we have requires money. Lets not kid ourselves. And if we can't even raise some initial funds to get our groups moving, is it any wonder so many groups are inactive or die? But all is not lost. There are still plenty of visionaries who put their money where there mouth is, from people like you Shaun to Elon Musk. It is the dedication, money and drive from such people that will see us reach our goals. I know many of us can be doing it tough financially, but I also know of dedicated space people who still donate money even when things are tough for them. If space matters to you, and is more than just a passing fad, you will give, even if it hurts. No bucks, no Buck Rogers
Score: 4
hunty
hunty
Rob Hunt
Male/55
Perth, WA, AU
Shaun, if I could shake ur hand and give u a hug, I would. You have put in a monumental effort as befits someone with ur skills and passion. But where the rubber hits the road is a critical environment. I sympathise and empathise strongly, and confess to being one of those who can but sit back and say
hunty
Shaun, if I could shake ur hand and give u a hug, I would. You have put in a monumental effort as befits someone with ur skills and passion. But where the rubber hits the road is a critical environment. I sympathise and empathise strongly, and confess to being one of those who can but sit back and say "Yeah, *they* should do that, but I can't contribute." I will also take this opportunity to repeat my mantra: "There simply isn't the public groundswell needed to see us do special things in space." This is where I can contribute by spending my life trying to improve science outreach in the hope that the subsequent generations have a little more appreciation in STEM. You should feel *very* proud of ur tilt at the wind, and I wish u every success in ur other ventures, and maybe, just maybe, moonmars will be back in some form. Say Hi to the MSA Vic mob for me, and I'll see you around the traps. (clapping loud and long) Rob
Score: 2
tjreo
tjreo
Tony Jensen
Male/45
Denver, CO, US
Shaun, You have been encouraging, passionate, and driven in the short time I've known you. Moonmars is a special place for me since this is my first
tjreo
Shaun, You have been encouraging, passionate, and driven in the short time I've known you. Moonmars is a special place for me since this is my first "home" after catching the Mars bug. Thank you for who you are and for what you've built.
Score: 3
zeds
zeds
first, thank you for everything you have done mr.moss.

second, i do not know much about programming and coding, but what about connecting moonmars to facebook like a facebook app. there is a facebook app called schoolfeed where you just use schoolfeed from facebook and its really nice you talk to all your old school peers. is that possible to connect moonmars as a facebook app? or would that be a whole prject itself? that way you can use the already giant social network of facebook where everyone is and also make a space enthusiast network inside of facebook and also you can reach out to more people. but again i know nothing about IT so its just a uneducated idea thrown out there by me haha :). whatever happens, i will be here and where ever there is space people :).
zeds
first, thank you for everything you have done mr.moss.

second, i do not know much about programming and coding, but what about connecting moonmars to facebook like a facebook app. there is a facebook app called schoolfeed where you just use schoolfeed from facebook and its really nice you talk to all your old school peers. is that possible to connect moonmars as a facebook app? or would that be a whole prject itself? that way you can use the already giant social network of facebook where everyone is and also make a space enthusiast network inside of facebook and also you can reach out to more people. but again i know nothing about IT so its just a uneducated idea thrown out there by me haha . whatever happens, i will be here and where ever there is space people .
Score: 2
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Thanks guys :) Your kind words and generous reactions mean a lot. @FrankS, thanks for putting my name in the same sentence as Elon's! :D

When I look at the moonmars.com logo and see how perfect and beautiful it is, I can't help but think that it is destined to be *something*. But it needs to be reviewed, reinvented and rethunk. Your idea, @zeds, is a good one. I have been thinking that in the next iteration the focus should be entirely on the virtual environment, and we hook it into Facebook using the FB platform for any social networking features we may need. So you could move seamlessly from one to the other as required.

There are a lot of free tools. We can use Facebook or Yahoo groups to discuss and develop settlement designs, Google Drive to create collaborative design documents as needed, and I'm sure there are sites for sharing 3D models. Then we construct settlements in the 3D world as planned. So you would come to moonmars.com and instantly be in a virtual world; that would be the main and only feature of the site. For proof-of-concept we might even look at building something, like a model Mars base, in Second Life, as an experiment. One thing I've learned from talking to @dan_lennox and reading
mossy2100
Thanks guys Your kind words and generous reactions mean a lot. @FrankS, thanks for putting my name in the same sentence as Elon's!

When I look at the moonmars.com logo and see how perfect and beautiful it is, I can't help but think that it is destined to be *something*. But it needs to be reviewed, reinvented and rethunk. Your idea, @zeds, is a good one. I have been thinking that in the next iteration the focus should be entirely on the virtual environment, and we hook it into Facebook using the FB platform for any social networking features we may need. So you could move seamlessly from one to the other as required.

There are a lot of free tools. We can use Facebook or Yahoo groups to discuss and develop settlement designs, Google Drive to create collaborative design documents as needed, and I'm sure there are sites for sharing 3D models. Then we construct settlements in the 3D world as planned. So you would come to moonmars.com and instantly be in a virtual world; that would be the main and only feature of the site. For proof-of-concept we might even look at building something, like a model Mars base, in Second Life, as an experiment. One thing I've learned from talking to @dan_lennox and reading "The Lean Startup" is the importance of conducting low-cost experiments to discover what users really want. This saves you from investing too much in the wrong things.

And this is the real question. What do users really want? Back in 1999, in the early days of the Mars Foundation (%mars-foundation), we had very ambitious plans for permanent human settlements on Mars. These plans were developed further by the 4 Frontiers Corporation. But these groups have faded out now. Where are the grassroots Moon and Mars settlement design plans now? I honestly don't know. Perhaps as a result of the NewSpace movement, plans like these have shifted to startups like Golden Spike and Mars One, and those of us in the enthusiast community don't feel we can easily engage with those plans.

It may simply be a timing thing. The world has changed a great deal since 1999, when I first thought of this project and when Mars settlement seemed just over the horizon. The internet and mobile technology have boomed, and Google and Facebook and smartphones have become integral parts of our lives. But at the same time, we have weathered the GFC, which has affected many nations, and global warming and climate change are now worryingly real and present. It's hard to maintain that optimistic vision of space settlement in the face of more immediate concerns. That's not to say we shouldn't maintain that vision of a positive human future - in fact, it's more important now than ever before. But it's still hard for people to make the time.

Anyway - we will see how things unfold. The site won't change over the next 2 months, but then we will have another look at it. I have observed many times in life that some things, especially creative projects, can benefit from being left alone for a bit. Then, when they are looked upon again with fresh eyes, new inspiration and clarity emerges to carry the idea through to a whole new level. I think this is what will happen.

Mossy
Score: 0
Coral
Coral
Coral Horton
Female/2
MAROOCHYDORE, QLD, AU
good...dont abandon this folks...ideas can now form and it can develop again in the future. One thing I think is that when I get an email notification that there is a comment on moonmars.com I get the whole thread in my email so I dont actually have to go to moonmars to read it. I dont need the whole thread there I need it only in moonmars...get me? Any way I think the FB link would be great as I have said before.  So  anyway lets get through the 21st Dec and see  if we come out the other side of that.. :)
Coral
good...dont abandon this folks...ideas can now form and it can develop again in the future. One thing I think is that when I get an email notification that there is a comment on moonmars.com I get the whole thread in my email so I dont actually have to go to moonmars to read it. I dont need the whole thread there I need it only in moonmars...get me? Any way I think the FB link would be great as I have said before. So anyway lets get through the 21st Dec and see if we come out the other side of that..
Score: 1
Koeng
Koeng
Koeng
US
I look at this project, and then I look at another project. Particularly Linux. I have noticed a few things.

First of all, there is the difficulty to contribute (without money). With Linux distros, everyone is welcome to check out the source code and help to make advancements. At moonmars, this is similar, ideas are spread to help make advancements. But to really help with linux, all you need is knowledge. For space forums, you need money. Some people are just not comfortable with giving money because of their lifestyle. 

Next, there is making the project happen. With Linux, or BSD, or any other open source software area, advancements to the goal happen very quickly because all the contributors need is knowledge and time. In the space area, you need a whole lot of money and time. Most people interested aren't rich like elon musk! Lets give an example. 

If everyone here could create their ideas, pursue our dream without money in the way, then where would we be?   

-Koeng
Koeng
I look at this project, and then I look at another project. Particularly Linux. I have noticed a few things.

First of all, there is the difficulty to contribute (without money). With Linux distros, everyone is welcome to check out the source code and help to make advancements. At moonmars, this is similar, ideas are spread to help make advancements. But to really help with linux, all you need is knowledge. For space forums, you need money. Some people are just not comfortable with giving money because of their lifestyle.

Next, there is making the project happen. With Linux, or BSD, or any other open source software area, advancements to the goal happen very quickly because all the contributors need is knowledge and time. In the space area, you need a whole lot of money and time. Most people interested aren't rich like elon musk! Lets give an example.

If everyone here could create their ideas, pursue our dream without money in the way, then where would we be?

-Koeng
Score: 2
tjreo
tjreo
Tony Jensen
Male/45
Denver, CO, US
@koeng makes an interesting point that ought to be pondered. What would happen if the source were open instead of closed? This is a much deeper discussion because there are many considerations.

I know that I would definitely have looked at the code if were open. Prior to contributing, you must understand the language, the frameworks, and the architecture. But I eat those for lunch so what's another one?

This deserves some pondering.
tjreo
@Koeng makes an interesting point that ought to be pondered. What would happen if the source were open instead of closed? This is a much deeper discussion because there are many considerations.

I know that I would definitely have looked at the code if were open. Prior to contributing, you must understand the language, the frameworks, and the architecture. But I eat those for lunch so what's another one?

This deserves some pondering.
Score: 1
zeds
zeds
oh i forgot to add a third. yeah you can always open source this and see where that goes :). nice one @Koeng and @tjreo.
zeds
oh i forgot to add a third. yeah you can always open source this and see where that goes . nice one @Koeng and @tjreo.
Score: 1
michel416
michel416
Michel Segeren
Male
Portland, ON, CA
@mossy2100 thanks for doing such an outstanding job; I totally understand why you can not spend any further time/resources on the site, even so I sincerely hope you'll keep the site alive. I still think the virtual environment is going to be the most exciting part of the site and should attract a lot of attention and following. Perhaps it will be possible in the future to build the virtual environment as a premium membership feature; maybe some polling need to be done as to what extent members would be willing to share the cost. I hope all current members will try their best to help keep the site alive by continuing to post. Thanks again.
michel416
@mossy2100 thanks for doing such an outstanding job; I totally understand why you can not spend any further time/resources on the site, even so I sincerely hope you'll keep the site alive. I still think the virtual environment is going to be the most exciting part of the site and should attract a lot of attention and following. Perhaps it will be possible in the future to build the virtual environment as a premium membership feature; maybe some polling need to be done as to what extent members would be willing to share the cost. I hope all current members will try their best to help keep the site alive by continuing to post. Thanks again.
Score: 1
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
I'm definitely open to the idea of open-sourcing the project! This idea has been on the table since the beginning. What has held me back from doing that, as I've said when asked about this in the past, is that making the project open source could adversely affect fund-raising efforts. However, it may also greatly help with fund-raising because the site would get built faster. As for right now, even if I make it open source, it would still require a lot of my time, which I can't spare. But it may well be the right move in a couple of months, and I really appreciate the support for that strategy.

I still think the purpose of the site needs some rethinking and reinvention. I've been thinking about converting it into a parallel Moon/Mars settlement design project, similar to what Mars Foundation used to be, and narrowing the focus to be just that. Our goal would be to develop a viable settlement design for both the Moon and Mars, and a feasible business plan that incorporates both. It would mean the site's
mossy2100
I'm definitely open to the idea of open-sourcing the project! This idea has been on the table since the beginning. What has held me back from doing that, as I've said when asked about this in the past, is that making the project open source could adversely affect fund-raising efforts. However, it may also greatly help with fund-raising because the site would get built faster. As for right now, even if I make it open source, it would still require a lot of my time, which I can't spare. But it may well be the right move in a couple of months, and I really appreciate the support for that strategy.

I still think the purpose of the site needs some rethinking and reinvention. I've been thinking about converting it into a parallel Moon/Mars settlement design project, similar to what Mars Foundation used to be, and narrowing the focus to be just that. Our goal would be to develop a viable settlement design for both the Moon and Mars, and a feasible business plan that incorporates both. It would mean the site's "groups" would become design teams operating within a common project.
Score: 0
box
box
Balazs Imri
Male
Melbourne, VIC, AU
You got quite far with this project, don't give up. A year ago I set out on a quest exactly the same as yours. I would like to be part of a large organisation of all space enthusiasts and hobby groups banding together to run a proper large scale space program.

I am still only trying to find people doing the same thing, and other cool projects out there. Trying to
box
You got quite far with this project, don't give up. A year ago I set out on a quest exactly the same as yours. I would like to be part of a large organisation of all space enthusiasts and hobby groups banding together to run a proper large scale space program.

I am still only trying to find people doing the same thing, and other cool projects out there. Trying to "map" the network of people who are into accessing space. At the same time I am also trying to learn skills to actually build software that would be useful for this.

I think simplicity and ease of plugging the product into other networks and other networks into your product is the key. Convincing people to join your network is hard when they are already part of other networks and already use up a large portion of their online time on those networks.

Also the "game" needs to be simple to allow for low level of involvement. If the game requires too much time people who have jobs and family life to manage will not be able to participate much. Also if the game is simple, the target audience can be much wider than hard core space enthusiasts with modelling, scripting, and mission planning capabilities.

At least that is the approach I am thinking about for 2 main reasons.
1. My low level programming skills. I personally would have to start simple no matter what.
2. I have a full time job that eats up most of my time.

It is great to see that I am not alone with my crazy idea, and that other people are way ahead of me.
Score: 0
Coral
Coral
Coral Horton
Female/2
MAROOCHYDORE, QLD, AU
Good to see the site still being used
Coral
Good to see the site still being used
Score: 0
BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
@box You are totally correct. Being able to sign in with Facebook and have my MM posts automatically go to my Sol-X  FB page would make me use MM 1000% more.

Crazy stuff I'm researching www.solspike.com and the JURBAN Google Lunar X PRIZE (Always looking for new team members for both)

Less crazy stuff I'm working on www.solarsystemexpress.com
BlazeSanders
@box You are totally correct. Being able to sign in with Facebook and have my MM posts automatically go to my Sol-X FB page would make me use MM 1000% more.

Crazy stuff I'm researching www.solspike.com and the JURBAN Google Lunar X PRIZE (Always looking for new team members for both)

Less crazy stuff I'm working on www.solarsystemexpress.com
Score: 1
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Thanks, guys :) I haven't given up. I simply can't keep sinking money into it at the moment. However, things are picking up. My spider senses are telling me we'll have some capital to play with soon. Until then, by all means contribute ideas and feedback. I think the site needs to be re-thought, and at least partly redeveloped so that it integrates with existing social networks such as FB/Twitter rather than try to replicate their functionality. Similarly we can leverage tools like basecamp for project management.

I agree with what you're saying about the game. The goal is a virtual environment that people can visit and explore, either a little or a lot. Maybe we can even use a 3rd party for the virtual environment. MM can simply be a hub for everyone to connect to these other tools, and to pull everyone together.
mossy2100
Thanks, guys I haven't given up. I simply can't keep sinking money into it at the moment. However, things are picking up. My spider senses are telling me we'll have some capital to play with soon. Until then, by all means contribute ideas and feedback. I think the site needs to be re-thought, and at least partly redeveloped so that it integrates with existing social networks such as FB/Twitter rather than try to replicate their functionality. Similarly we can leverage tools like basecamp for project management.

I agree with what you're saying about the game. The goal is a virtual environment that people can visit and explore, either a little or a lot. Maybe we can even use a 3rd party for the virtual environment. MM can simply be a hub for everyone to connect to these other tools, and to pull everyone together.
Score: 0
tjreo
tjreo
Tony Jensen
Male/45
Denver, CO, US
The goal for this site is unique and challenging. I would love to be part of the brainstorming session when we toss around ideads on how to be a meta-community. 

I believe that the purpose behind the Tent project (http://tent.io) is beautifully aligned with what we are trying to do here. Their timeline for being ready for prime time is about a year away, I'd guess. Each person would have a Tent profile which would be used for identity. The social features are baked in. We would need to build a moonmars app using the Tent protocol. Disclaimer: I am still actively involved in the Tent community (https://tjreo.tent.is)
tjreo
The goal for this site is unique and challenging. I would love to be part of the brainstorming session when we toss around ideads on how to be a meta-community.

I believe that the purpose behind the Tent project (http://tent.io) is beautifully aligned with what we are trying to do here. Their timeline for being ready for prime time is about a year away, I'd guess. Each person would have a Tent profile which would be used for identity. The social features are baked in. We would need to build a moonmars app using the Tent protocol. Disclaimer: I am still actively involved in the Tent community (https://tjreo.tent.is)
Score: 1
BlazeSanders
BlazeSanders
Blaze Sanders
Male/27
Baltimore, MD, US
@mossy2100 @mikeumus and I are having a meeting 6/3/13 at 10 pm USA EST. @tjreo you are welcome to join us, I sent a calendar invite
BlazeSanders
@mossy2100 @mikeumus and I are having a meeting 6/3/13 at 10 pm USA EST. @tjreo you are welcome to join us, I sent a calendar invite
Score: 2
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Tony can you explain more about tent in a separate thread? Doesn't it overlap with twitter quite a lot?
mossy2100
Tony can you explain more about tent in a separate thread? Doesn't it overlap with twitter quite a lot?
Score: 0
box
box
Balazs Imri
Male
Melbourne, VIC, AU
@mossy2100 have you done any
box
@mossy2100 have you done any "market research" type surveying of potential or actual users to find out what people like us actually want or how we use the internet? It would most certainly help with the way to redesign your project. I have been thinking about this a for a while now. You know things like how much time we spend online, what sites we use, what games we play, how we like to play, how much money would we be willing to spend on a project like moonmars etc...Also what about the market size, have you tried figuring out how many of us there is out there? Another something I wanted to do for a while now.
Score: 0
Coral
Coral
Coral Horton
Female/2
MAROOCHYDORE, QLD, AU
One comment I would like to make is this...If we see the whole 'string' in our email boxes there is no incentive to log on. I think a '' someone has posted a comment
Coral
One comment I would like to make is this...If we see the whole 'string' in our email boxes there is no incentive to log on. I think a '' someone has posted a comment" would entice a person to log on and check the site out more.
Score: 2
tjreo
tjreo
Tony Jensen
Male/45
Denver, CO, US
@coral, I agree that seeing the whole thread is overkill especially when the new post is at the bottom. It *would* be nice to see the new post in the email along with the original post below it. Possibly the number of posts in the thread.
tjreo
@Coral, I agree that seeing the whole thread is overkill especially when the new post is at the bottom. It *would* be nice to see the new post in the email along with the original post below it. Possibly the number of posts in the thread.
Score: 0
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
@Coral - when I originally just had the comment by itself in the email, someone asked for the preceding messages so they would have context. So I changed it to show the whole thread. I realise that when this is a long thread, this is an issue, and I need to trim it back to maybe just the last 3 previous comments with a link
mossy2100
@Coral - when I originally just had the comment by itself in the email, someone asked for the preceding messages so they would have context. So I changed it to show the whole thread. I realise that when this is a long thread, this is an issue, and I need to trim it back to maybe just the last 3 previous comments with a link "Read previous comments". However, the intention for how these threads operate is like a mailing list or a Yahoo group, and it will eventually be possible to reply without logging into the site. The goal isn't to force people to visit the site.
Score: 0
box
box
Balazs Imri
Male
Melbourne, VIC, AU
I was thinking of some sort of link list on people's profiles where people could stick links to google documents or documents already on this site. I thought if people were going to
box
I was thinking of some sort of link list on people's profiles where people could stick links to google documents or documents already on this site. I thought if people were going to "work" on projects of some sort, it would be handy to have links to documents or resources on their profile for others to see if they wish to join in, also for personal use. I am not sure if you already have a similar function, I am a moonmars noob still.
Score: 1
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
We don't have that kind of functionality yet, @box, but it's a great idea. The intention is that files can be tagged with any of the MM actor entities (members, groups and topics) and will therefore appear in that actor's files.
mossy2100
We don't have that kind of functionality yet, @box, but it's a great idea. The intention is that files can be tagged with any of the MM actor entities (members, groups and topics) and will therefore appear in that actor's files.
Score: 0
box
box
Balazs Imri
Male
Melbourne, VIC, AU
I have been wondering what the
box
I have been wondering what the "lurkers" do in groups like this. It seems to be a common pattern. All space groups have a large number of "members" but only a select few actually post anything or talk to eachother. I wonder why that is, also if there is a way to actually query or "ping" those large number people and get some sort of response out of them.
Score: 2
Coral
Coral
Coral Horton
Female/2
MAROOCHYDORE, QLD, AU
Good idea box
Coral
Good idea box
Score: 1
michel416
michel416
Michel Segeren
Male
Portland, ON, CA
Guys & gals, can we please move this discussion to the Website Development Group. It does not belong here. This group is reserved for
michel416
Guys & gals, can we please move this discussion to the Website Development Group. It does not belong here. This group is reserved for "News".
Score: 1
Michael47Tucanae
Michael47Tucanae
Male
US
Has any here done any amateur Radio Astronomy?
Michael47Tucanae in this channel
Has any here done any amateur Radio Astronomy?
Score: 2
Koeng
Koeng
Koeng
US
I would like to get into it. Unfortunately for me I don't know where to begin, and live in a suburb so there is quite a bit of lighting (not that much though)

-Koeng
Koeng
I would like to get into it. Unfortunately for me I don't know where to begin, and live in a suburb so there is quite a bit of lighting (not that much though)

-Koeng
Score: 2
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Is lighting an issue for radio astronomy?
mossy2100
Is lighting an issue for radio astronomy?
Score: 1
michel416
michel416
Michel Segeren
Male
Portland, ON, CA
I think @Koeng probably misunderstood Michael's question. Radio Astronomy doesn't care about light. I doubt few amateurs would have the equipment though to perform Radio Astronomy. Assuming @Koeng means regular astronomy my advice would be to buy a good star atlas and a pair of binoculars to get going.
michel416
I think @Koeng probably misunderstood Michael's question. Radio Astronomy doesn't care about light. I doubt few amateurs would have the equipment though to perform Radio Astronomy. Assuming @Koeng means regular astronomy my advice would be to buy a good star atlas and a pair of binoculars to get going.
Score: 2
Koeng
Koeng
Koeng
US
Sorry I didn't see the
Koeng
Sorry I didn't see the "radio". Thanks michel416 I am going to buy an atlas (or download one )
Score: 2
MariannMay
MariannMay
Marina
Female
Winnipeg, MB, CA
Assembling a radio telescope is complicated, but doable (proof: http://www.signalone.com/radioastronomy/telescope/ ). Good place to start is here: http://www.radio-astronomy.org/node/142 . And yes, it doesn't care about light... it doesn't care about anything in fact, you can easily
MariannMay
Assembling a radio telescope is complicated, but doable (proof: http://www.signalone.com/radioastronomy/telescope/ ). Good place to start is here: http://www.radio-astronomy.org/node/142 . And yes, it doesn't care about light... it doesn't care about anything in fact, you can easily "look" through the wall if you wish. Except, the frequency should be free from any stuff coming from Earth, but 21-cm H1 emission is safe, I believe its most protected frequency of all...

For optical astronomy I'd also recommend a camera with a tripod. Astrophotography is fun, and it looks great with just minimal effort
Score: 3
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Bit of an update today. Nothing major, mostly just bug fixes, but a couple of new features as well:

Main points:
- The registration form now has a CAPTCHA, in order to prevent fake sign-ups.
- You can now edit posted items.

We're also added a few new groups lately: %exoplanets, %games and %dwarf-planets.

Enjoy!
@mossy2100
mossy2100 in this channel
Bit of an update today. Nothing major, mostly just bug fixes, but a couple of new features as well:

Main points:
- The registration form now has a CAPTCHA, in order to prevent fake sign-ups.
- You can now edit posted items.

We're also added a few new groups lately: %exoplanets, %games and %dwarf-planets.

Enjoy!
@mossy2100
Score: 0
michel416
michel416
Michel Segeren
Male
Portland, ON, CA
Thanks @mossy2100. I was wondering if their might be a need for an Astronomy group where amateur astronomy (and perhaps astronomy in general) could be explored. Just wondering if there would be many amateur astronomers among the membership. Thanks.
michel416
Thanks @mossy2100. I was wondering if their might be a need for an Astronomy group where amateur astronomy (and perhaps astronomy in general) could be explored. Just wondering if there would be many amateur astronomers among the membership. Thanks.
Score: 3
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Great idea, @michel416, I will attend to it.
mossy2100
Great idea, @michel416, I will attend to it.
Score: 0
Koeng
Koeng
Koeng
US
Maybe just a bug, but I was going to post something in terraforming but I can't seem to find where to post at. I can still comment, but no
Koeng
Maybe just a bug, but I was going to post something in terraforming but I can't seem to find where to post at. I can still comment, but no "post" or "share something" button/area D:

-Koeng
Score: 1
MariannMay
MariannMay
Marina
Female
Winnipeg, MB, CA
@Koeng, the site says you are not a member of terraforming group...

Meanwhile, I've just noticed that I have a tiny bug of my own: some of my followers/followees (not all) are listed twice... I couldn't see this in anyone else's channel. It doesn't make any problems though.
MariannMay
@Koeng, the site says you are not a member of terraforming group...

Meanwhile, I've just noticed that I have a tiny bug of my own: some of my followers/followees (not all) are listed twice... I couldn't see this in anyone else's channel. It doesn't make any problems though.
Score: 1
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Hi @Koeng, the group says you're a member now - please let me know if you have any troubles posting.

@MariannMay, I will investigate. If there's a bug, it will be fixed as a priority. Thanks for reporting it!
mossy2100
Hi @Koeng, the group says you're a member now - please let me know if you have any troubles posting.

@MariannMay, I will investigate. If there's a bug, it will be fixed as a priority. Thanks for reporting it!
Score: 0
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Hi everyone

This is a special update because it's going to out to all 354 active members. (hi :))

Let me explain. We had a bug that went undetected for a while that meant new members weren't being automatically added to the %moonmars-news group. Hence, we only had about 35 members in that group, and these are the only people who received updates for the past couple of months.

That bug is fixed now, and rather than try and figure out who may or may not want to receive updates, it was a whole lot easier to just add everyone to this group. Sorry if this annoying to some people. If you want to leave this group, click on the group link and click
mossy2100 in this channel
Hi everyone

This is a special update because it's going to out to all 354 active members. (hi )

Let me explain. We had a bug that went undetected for a while that meant new members weren't being automatically added to the %moonmars-news group. Hence, we only had about 35 members in that group, and these are the only people who received updates for the past couple of months.

That bug is fixed now, and rather than try and figure out who may or may not want to receive updates, it was a whole lot easier to just add everyone to this group. Sorry if this annoying to some people. If you want to leave this group, click on the group link and click "Leave group". However, I hope you won't! It's not an especially busy channel (I post something here about once every 2 weeks on average) and is crucial for remaining informed about how the site is evolving.

So, to those of you who may not have heard from me for a bit, please go to %moonmars-news and have a scan through the update history. The site has been promoted at 5 conferences now (3 in the US, 2 in Australia) with a very positive response.

Perhaps the biggest improvement in recent weeks is the new notifications system. You can set your preferences for notifications by going to your profile, and clicking the Edit: Notifications link in the sidebar. This will let you specify exactly what website events you want to be informed about by email. To view a history of your notifications, click the Notifications link in your profile menu.

You'll notice that groups now have tags like members, with a % prefix. Examples: %space-news, %marsdrive, %msl. If you haven't seen the group search (and bulk join feature) yet, click "Groups" in the main menu.

I've been fortunate to find 2 very brilliant and talented Drupal developers to assist me in the ongoing development of moonmars.com. They are the members @rogical (China) and @beautifulmind (India). @rogical has been particularly helpful at smashing bugs these past couple of weeks.

The design for our member levels system (our gamification/incentive system) has been completed (http://moonmars.com/handbook/member-levels) and we expect to have that implemented and functional within the next couple of weeks.

The current roadmap: A couple of long-awaited features that will be implemented soon include member search, group permissions, group administrators, and the ability for members to create new groups themselves. In the new year, we'll be adding topics (using #tag notation, like twitter), and rebuilding the channels to function more like mailing lists, which means you'll be able to email your comments in, and that messages can have multiple attachments. We'll also be building the resource library, which will extract all the links and files from posts and make them searchable, taggable and commentable (it's a word!). Then let's not forget the planned integration with facebook, twitter and LinkedIn. All that will basically round out "Phase 1 - Social Network", from which we proceed to the events and project management features, and then the virtual environment.

There's a lot of work still to be done, obviously But we're making great progress and things are progressing much faster now than before. Our kickstarter campaign will also go live early next year, which will take us to the next level. If we can do this all without VC/angel funding we will, but also we won't say no to that if it comes, and I'll back in the US for at least 3 months next year promoting the site at ISDC, LSF, NewSpace, the Mars Society conference and others.

As usual I thank you for your support of this very exciting project! This ain't your grandma's social network This is where we communicate, co-operate and collaborate on taking the human race to the next stage of its evolution - living in space. Right here, right now.

It's been said that one day there will be more people living off Earth than on it - we're the ones creating that future, with our passion, our enthusiasm, our vision and imagination. We may be young now, but we're the leaders of tomorrow - the scientists, engineers, technologists, businesspeople, politicians, teachers, writers, doctors, cinematographers, artists and everyone else who leads the world in new directions. Let's start getting ready NOW. Make friends on the site, participate in discussions, share links and files, and if you see something that you think can be made better (or if you see a bug), for Jupiter's sake SPEAK UP! This site may be simple now, but it IS happening, we ARE growing, we ARE going to have the best social network in the world, with the BIGGEST and COOLEST virtual environment ever built, where we imagine and model the future. So, you can choose now: wait and see what happens, or to make things happen. You should know by now how committed I am to this project - conceived in 1999, and still believing and building. Thanks for your support

Thanks for reading this rather long update! Again I apologise to those people who may have manually unsubscribed from this list a few months ago but have been re-added today.

Much love,
@mossy2100
Score: 4
zeds
zeds
i think there are channels that all members(new and old) should be permanently subscribed to. the news channel is one of them. everyone needs to be in the loop about whats going on. makes everyone here also be insync with everyone else. by the way, a great post here mr.moss :).
zeds
i think there are channels that all members(new and old) should be permanently subscribed to. the news channel is one of them. everyone needs to be in the loop about whats going on. makes everyone here also be insync with everyone else. by the way, a great post here mr.moss .
Score: 1
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
I thought about that, @zeds. But these days people can be very sensitive about what enters their inbox, and I thought it would be better to give them the option to remain a member of the site without receiving notifications about it.
mossy2100
I thought about that, @zeds. But these days people can be very sensitive about what enters their inbox, and I thought it would be better to give them the option to remain a member of the site without receiving notifications about it.
Score: 0
zeds
zeds
would it be possible to make them be subscribed to the news channel but without them getting updates on their e-mail inbox?
zeds
would it be possible to make them be subscribed to the news channel but without them getting updates on their e-mail inbox?
Score: 1
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Yes and no :) Currently, they can specify in their notifications preferences to not receive notifications about new items or comments posted in their groups (i.e. *all* their groups). We are going to add group-level preferences so people will be able to say, I just want or don't want notifications from this or that group. But we don't have that yet. Once we have this, then yes, we could keep everyone in the %moonmars-news group and not permit them to leave the group, although they could disable notifications for that group. But what we have works for now.
mossy2100
Yes and no Currently, they can specify in their notifications preferences to not receive notifications about new items or comments posted in their groups (i.e. *all* their groups). We are going to add group-level preferences so people will be able to say, I just want or don't want notifications from this or that group. But we don't have that yet. Once we have this, then yes, we could keep everyone in the %moonmars-news group and not permit them to leave the group, although they could disable notifications for that group. But what we have works for now.
Score: 0
zeds
zeds
awesome just wanted to get that out of the way. but yes whatever works is good :).
zeds
awesome just wanted to get that out of the way. but yes whatever works is good .
Score: 1
Coral
Coral
Coral Horton
Female/2
MAROOCHYDORE, QLD, AU
354 members...congrats shaun..you are doing so well.
Coral
354 members...congrats shaun..you are doing so well.
Score: 0
mossy2100
mossy2100
Shaun Moss
Male/42
Brisbane, QLD, AU
Thanks, @Coral :) It's a bit quiet at the moment, that's the only thing, and it will be hard to add many new features before the new year. But 2013 will be huge :) We'll reach our 1000 members by March, I think, and the site should be getting much busier by then.
mossy2100
Thanks, @Coral It's a bit quiet at the moment, that's the only thing, and it will be hard to add many new features before the new year. But 2013 will be huge We'll reach our 1000 members by March, I think, and the site should be getting much busier by then.
Score: 0